Right this is for the hard core Cranoraks out there, hunched over your PCs and smart phones and laptops and tablets who want deep knowledge and profound understanding. Full, I repeat full, minutes of the BCPC meeting on police funding. There is some interesting stuff plus fire service material but I don't have time to process and repackage it all for easier consumption. En Joy and Deep Joy.
Bedfordshire Councils Planning Consortium
Minutes
of the Bedfordshire Parish Councils Planning Consortium Meeting held on
Thursday, December 13th, 2012 at The Rufus Centre, Flitwick at
7.15pm.
Alf Murphy-Chair BCPC; Hulcote&Salford PC AM |
Janice Green-Marston Moreteyne PC JG
|
Ken Green-Chalgrave PC KG |
Hugh Roberts- Marston Moreteyne PC HR
|
|
Iain
Clapham-Lidlington PC
IC
|
Adrian Terrington-Sundon PC
AT
|
|
Adele
Moore-Lidlington PC
AM
|
Alan Headford-WSDS AH |
|
John
Harfield-Harlington PC
JH
|
|
Guests
Inspector Pete Nouch;
Sergeant Andy Rivers; Deputy Chief Fire Officer Glenn Ranger; Area Commander David
Fothergill.
1. APOLOGIES
Fran Fry-Aspley Guise PC; Ian Pickering-Aspley Guise PC; Alan Bastable-Cranfield PC
and CBC; Dennis Gale-Flitwick TC; Alan
Shadbolt-Leighton-Linslade TC; Maulden PC.
2.
WELCOME
The Chairman welcomed Inspector Pete Nouch and
Sergeant Andy Rivers, both based at Ampthill Police Station, to the meeting.
3.
DISCUSSION
WITH INSPECTOR PETE NOUCH
AND SERGEANT
ANDY RIVERS.
AM begun by saying that parish councils were
worried about police cutbacks, speeding traffic, HGVs etc. The following
discussion took place;
a)
Co-ordination
between the Police and Parish Councils.
JH asked if the police will still be
co-ordinating with parish councils or if it would be the job of the Police and Crime
Commissioner.
Sgt. Rivers replied that it will still be the job
of the police. Parish councils will have a police representative attending the
parish council (PC) meeting every three months and receive the monthly crime
figures. However he is not sure what will happen after April 2013 due to more
changes within the force. The number of PCSOs covering the southern area of
Bedfordshire will be reduced to 24. There will be more budget cuts in 2014/15.
PCs should have received a letter regarding a possible financial contribution
towards PCSOs. It appeared that, in fact, PCs had not received this letter so
Inspector Nouch said he would forward it to the clerk to distribute to members.
He added that 12 PCSOs and one Sergeant cover his particular area. All southern
areas are covered by Kempston and Luton. Response times are only 1-2 minutes
greater than before.
b)
Ampthill
Police Station
A member asked if Ampthill Police Station was staying
open. Inspector Nouch confirmed that it was as far as he knew. AT commented
that the police were doing a great job but the job was becoming harder. Sundon
is covered by the police station at Leighton Buzzard and no police
representative had attended a parish council meeting for several months. Sgt.
Rivers also covers Leighton Buzzard and he said he will make sure someone
attends in future. Inspector Nouch said that the parishes represented at this
evening’s meeting were all were in low crime areas therefore officers are
deployed elsewhere. The police force is adapting and evolving all the time.
c)
Costings:
Sergeant Rivers explained that a PCSO costs £51,000 of which £24,000 is their
salary. Bedfordshire Police are looking for £33,000 to be paid by parish
councils plus £280 per month if a car is used. Parish councils should have
received a letter explaining this. Some parish councils want to fund their own
PCSO. A review of PCSOs will be held in April 2013. AM asked about the cost of
a Special Constable but Sergeant Rivers currently does not have that
information.
JH pointed out that there is a legal difficulty
for a parish council to fund any facility which is not unique to it. If that
difficulty can be overcome then parish councils may be willing to contribute
financially to fund a PCSO. There would have to be discussions between NALC,
CBC and the police.
d)
Growth
Area KG commented that this is a growth area, for
example 7,000 houses are to be built north of Houghton Regis, therefore cuts in
policing are not sensible. JG added that several new homes were to be built in
Marston Moreteyne. Sergeant Rivers conceded that there might be a possible
increase in anti-social behaviour, parking offences etc. He hoped that the
Police and Crime Commissioner (PCC) would have more influence with the government
regarding the cutbacks. Every year the police have achieved more for less but
he suspected that crime would eventually rise. He added that PCSOs have changed
their shifts to cover the times of highest crime incidents. Resources will
always be deployed to areas that need them. Uniformed and plain clothes police
cover hot spots in prevalent areas such as Luton and Leighton Buzzard. He
reassured members that if support is required they would receive it.
e)
Traffic
Management Team.
In answer to a question Inspector Nouch said that
the Traffic Management Team was relatively safe. However 10% of warranted
officers will go. AT again expressed sympathy for the police. He said that
Sundon will have 6,000 new homes and a new road, both of which will require more
policing. He feared that public relations with the police will go down. Members
were advised to direct any comments to the PCC. AM also suggested that any
comments should be sent to the clerk who will forward them to the PCC.
f)
Funding.
Inspector Nouch commented that Bedfordshire Police is poorly funded compared
to other forces because of the way it is structured.
g)
Speed
Watch. Sergeant Rivers looks after 43 parishes. The
Speed Watch scheme is being encouraged and PCSOs are being trained to use the
Speed Gun. Anyone caught speeding will be sent a letter to that effect. If
anyone receives two letters Sergeant Rivers will visit them personally. As yet
he is not aware of anyone receiving two letters. A list of hot spots is being
compiled. Areas of concern will have someone come out to monitor the traffic.
h)
Truck
Watch. Companies
whose drivers break the 7.5 tonne restriction are notified by the police
following the first incident. The Transport Manager of an offending company is
contacted if two incidents occur within the restriction area and the issue is
usually dealt with in house. This approach has been very successful. Inspector
Nouch said that the police had worked with Millbrook Proving Ground, which has
been very supportive, whereby truck drivers are given a map of the route out of
Millbrook.
AT expressed concern that once the Woodside Link
is complete traffic will come through the villages. There has been a 7.5 tonne
limit through Sundon for many years but it has been ignored. Sgt Rivers replied
that there has to be police available to enforce it. Also foreign drivers
effectively have a pass as it is difficult to prosecute them from the UK.
AM thanked
Inspector Nouch and Sergeant Rivers for attending the meeting. They then left.
4.
DISCUSSION
WITH FIRE OFFICER GLENN RANGER and AREA COMMANDER DAVID FOTHERGILL.
AM welcomed Deputy Chief Fire
Officer Glenn Ranger and Area Commander David Fothergill to the meeting.
a)
Introduction
and Overview.
IC made an initial comment that the government
will reduce the amount of financial support and asked if there would be a Fire
Commissioner in the future. Mr Fothergill said that it was possible that the
present PCC may have some influence on the Fire Service.
Deputy Chief Fire Officer Glenn Ranger then
introduced himself and Area Commander David Fothergill. He gave a brief
overview of the Bedfordshire and Luton Fire and Rescue Service. The service works under various
legislation acts including:
i.
Fire and Rescue Service Act 2004
The service holds consultations to ask what the
public want from its service.
Brandon Lewis MP is the Fire Minister.
Within the UK there are approximately 50,000
uniformed fire officers. In contrast there are 40,000 police officers in London
alone. However the fire officers are people of high quality and very efficient.
There are approximately 40 applicants per post for the fire service.
Bedfordshire and Luton Fire and Rescue Service has twelve elected members from Luton
Borough Council, Bedford Borough Council and Central Bedfordshire Council. The
service is a stand alone precepting body; it receives 40% of its funding from
the government and 60% from Council Tax.
Mr Ranger then explained the service hierarchy.
Services are delivered by:
i.
Prevention
ii.
Protection-the service has a legal duty to
inspect premises and prosecute if they do not meet the required standard
iii.
Response
There are 42 services in the UK. The Bedfordshire
service has 500 officers plus 100 support people. Officers have a broad remit
from attending road traffic accidents (RTAs), floods etc. The Bedfordshire
Service is one of 15 services in the UK that are equipped to support police
firearms officers. This is relatively new.
b)
Budget.
There are budget pressures on the service. At the
end of 2010 the government announced a 25% cut in the national budget for Fire
and Rescue Services. This equated to £3,000,000 for Bedfordshire representing a
10% cut. On December 19th, 2012 the service will find out how much
has to be saved-possibly £2,000,000.
Good governance and prudence has ensured that the
service has been maintained. However there are challenging times ahead. 36
officers have already gone.
Calls are answered within 7 seconds, house fires
are attended within 10 minutes and RTAs are attended within 13 minutes. But Mr
Ranger pointed out that high standards cost money.
IC asked how officers would avoid higher pension
contributions because of the reduced force. Mr Ranger said that up until a year
ago the contributions were 11%. This has gone up to 12.5% for senior officers
and will go up to 17% in 2/3 year’s time. Fire fighters will be paying 14/15%.
c)
Shared
Services
Some services are shared with Cambridgeshire,
Hertfordshire and Essex. IC asked if the shared services were expanding. Mr
Ranger said ‘yes’. It makes sense in some areas such as IT departments. However
if there are too many shared services the fire service becomes a regional rather
than a local service.
JH made three points:
i.
He expressed surprise at the objections to a
regional response centre because modern technology can pinpoint a location.
ii.
He asked how many retained officers there were.
iii.
He asked about water supply when attending fires.
Some villages have problems with water supply at the best of times.
Addressing the three points Mr Ranger said that:
i.
Local control centres are efficient.
ii.
Off the 500 fire officers 150 are retained and highly
trained. However it is harder to find retained officers now because the private
sector is reluctant to release employees to attend fires etc. Two fire
appliances are based at Ampthill and retained officers would need to be able to
reach the station within a few minutes making it more difficult to recruit. The
service needs to think of radical solutions. Mr. Fothergill added that retained
officers are trained almost to the level of full time officers.
iii.
Mr Ranger said that water supply had been a long
standing problem. Fire engines have their own water supply. Water carriers are
available. If officers have to tap into the fire hydrants they can ask the
water company to increase the pressure. They also have the authority to pump
from ponds, rivers and swimming pools. Finally a relay can be set up to source
water from miles away. He commented that he had never had an incident where
water was not available. Mr Fothergill added that the service is looking for
innovative ways to reduce water use. E.g. high pressure hoses and foam.
d)
Hoax
Calls.
IC asked about the issue of hoax calls. Mr Ranger
said that these were a constant problem. There are around 2,500 fake calls a
year and the service is working towards reducing this number. There is some
scope for charging for a false alarm but it is a difficult issue. For the past
10 years the service has been able to have the mobile phones of serial
offenders disconnected. The service provider will also disconnect them.
e)
Fire
Inspection Certificates.
AT asked if Fire Inspection Certificates were
still being issued. Mr Ranger replied that only high risk category premises
were inspected now but it is too early to tell if this is detrimental. He has
not seen an increase of fires as yet in non-domestic premises.
AM thanked Deputy Chief Fire Officer Glenn
Ranger and Area Commander David Fothergill for attending the meeting. They then
left.
5.
ANY
OTHER BUSINESS
a)
AM thanked all the members of the
Consortium for their help over the years. 2012 had been a difficult year for him
and he thanked Lesley Smith and Adrian Terrington for their support during that
time.
b)
JH informed members that CBC has approved
the building of 13 houses in a garden in Harlington which is right up against
the Conservation Area. English Heritage had become involved. One reason for the consent was that the
houses were within walking distance of the station. JH criticised CBC saying
that it regarded Conservation Areas as a land bank. AM asked Lesley to contact Nadine
Dorries MP about this application.
6.
DATE
OF NEXT MEETING
Thursday, February 21st, 2013
Meeting closed at 9.00pm
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